1. slef (~mjr@81-86-163-141.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #affs
  2. Topic for #affs is "Association For Free Software [UK] || RMS in Steel City, 25 Oct: http://www.sheflug.co.uk/meeting.html || http://www.affs.org.uk/"
  3. Topic for #affs set by slashmoo!~slash@linguaphone.plus.com at Mon Oct 13 09:09:57
  4. <slef> gruntings
  5. <quinophex> evenin
  6. <IRCian> found the password
  7. <IRCian> hi
  8. <slef> ok... what time is it?
  9. <IRCian> 2000
  10. <slef> Are any of the slashes here, do we expect Richard, or shall we roll?
  11. <quinophex> 20:03
  12. <quinophex> slash was going to play ninja tonight
  13. <slef> So far, I know that we will hear:
  14. <slef> 1. Treasury report
  15. <slef> 2. Newsletter update (Adam)
  16. <slef> 3. Promotion of speaking engagements (Mark or Ian)
  17. <slef> any additions?
  18. <IRCian> FLOSSIE conference?
  19. <slef> ok
  20. <slef> any more?
  21. <quinophex> thats all i could see in recent mail
  22. <slef> I think I've another one about shows, actually. That's all I have.
  23. <slef> OK if I kick off?
  24. Topic for #affs is "Association For Free Software [UK] || RMS in Steel City, 25 Oct: http://www.sheflug.co.uk/meeting.html || http://www.affs.org.uk/"
  25. Topic for #affs set by slashmoo!~slash@linguaphone.plus.com at Mon Oct 13 09:09:57
  26. <IRCian> please do
  27. <slef> OK, no change to funds since last email to list. Still a bit over 1300 pounds in the bank.
  28. <slef> Last month saw 12 new memberships and 4 renewals
  29. <slef> We have 6 members who have not renewed as due this month
  30. <IRCian> any idea why?
  31. <slef> Not really. That one I reported ("extreme political views") was due to renew a few months ago, but only just emailed
  32. <slef> 10 of the new members came at Olympia expo
  33. <slef> Any other questions about funds and members?
  34. <slef> OK, we can come back if necessary
  35. Topic for #affs is "AFFS.org.uk || 2. Newsletter update"
  36. Topic for #affs set by slef!~mjr@81-86-163-141.dsl.pipex.com at Mon Oct 27 20:12:11
  37. <slef> quinophex: how's it going? How many items still to come and what help do you want?
  38. <quinophex> we still have all the items to come
  39. <slef> Didn't I send you an Expo report?
  40. <quinophex> well, i am writing the update and expo things atm
  41. <quinophex> i am editing your Expo report to give links to photos etc.
  42. <quinophex> has anyone taken Government update yet?
  43. <slef> ok, cool. Did you see the images on gnu-friends?
  44. <quinophex> yeah, vaguely...
  45. <quinophex> was AFK for a few days
  46. <quinophex> so have only spent tonight going shit, shit, shit...
  47. <slef> No. I have some info from Chris Bell, so I could write it. Is it too cheeky to ask that ox.ac.uk chap to write a call for help?
  48. <quinophex> i wouldn't think so
  49. <slef> Shall you?
  50. <IRCian> Did you need anything from me? Just involved with the OOoEdu launch for eg
  51. <quinophex> did we ever establish how we were going to distribute this newsletter?
  52. <slef> IRCian: I think mention of FLOSSIE if possible?
  53. <IRCian> Venue London Institute of Education with target of 100
  54. <slef> quinophex: not conclusively. Text email seems the best bet to me, with paper on request.
  55. <IRCian> they can take a lot more if necessary.
  56. <slef> IRCian: I mean, write a short bit on it for the newsletter and email it to abower@thebowery.co.uk
  57. <IRCian> Thing is its developing and needs discussion
  58. <IRCian> Not much to write yet! Still sorting out a programme and potential speakers
  59. <slef> IRCian: if you mean between us, let's do it in a few minutes, if that's OK?
  60. <IRCian> OK
  61. <slef> How do you think we should send out newsletters?
  62. <quinophex> even small 1 para soundbites in this newsletter would be great
  63. <quinophex> with "hear more about this next newsletter"
  64. <slef> quinophex: Are you happy to summarise the RFCs and appeals? (After all, you've only just read some of them.)
  65. <quinophex> i think we should do the email+dead tree on request
  66. <slef> +1
  67. <quinophex> slef: yeah, np. do you want to edit me?
  68. <slef> quinophex: sure
  69. * slef finds his befh hat
  70. <slef> quinophex: any other newsletter problems?
  71. <quinophex> nafaik
  72. <slef> OK, let's move on. We can come back if necessary.
  73. <quinophex> but then I havn't sent people their reminders yet :)
  74. <quinophex> didn't help being ill most of last week... :(
  75. Topic for #affs is "AFFS.org.uk || 3. Promotion of speaking engagements"
  76. Topic for #affs set by slef!~mjr@81-86-163-141.dsl.pipex.com at Mon Oct 27 20:21:14
  77. <slef> I'm sorry to hear that. Everyone seems to be getting ill atm.
  78. <IRCian> time of the yr
  79. <slef> OK, I'll throw a little background into "Promotion of speaking engagements".
  80. <slef> I'm not sure we can make a final decision now, as we are only 3, but we can gather opinions.
  81. <slef> Ian is speaking at a kablenet event. They have listed him and linked to the AFFS site, using the logo, from a prominent place on the event's page.
  82. <slef> They have asked Ian for a link from the AFFS diary page. I am slightly concerned about that, as the event is "Open Source in the Public Sector"
  83. <slef> I know that some of the committee (not least me) are unhappy with the UK gov definition of "Open Source" because it permits swpat and other things that aren't free software.
  84. <slef> We've also generally not promoted AFFS members speaking engagements in the past. Should we change that?
  85. <slef> Should we link to this without using the cursed words?
  86. <slef> </rant>
  87. <IRCian> OK - here is my take
  88. <IRCian> Thing is we need to be promoting our input to speaking enagagements
  89. <IRCian> I don't think we should necessarily promote events
  90. <IRCian> Let's say I was speaking at a MS event, championing the cause
  91. <IRCian> Wouldn't we want people to know?
  92. <IRCian> Making a link to the info isn't necessarily promoting the event
  93. <slef> So we would link it as "Ian Lynch//Speaking at a Microsoft event at <link>Bracknell</link>//Time etc"?
  94. <IRCian> Depends how we qualify it
  95. <slef> or <link>Microsoft event</link> more likely
  96. <IRCian> I just think these are opportunities
  97. <IRCian> How we manage them is the issue
  98. <quinophex> promoting our appearance at an event is not the same as promoting the event
  99. <slef> I agree. They are dangers also, so we have to think carefully. Would kablenet be happy with "Ian Lynch//AFFS education officer speaks at a <link>kablenet event</link> for public sector bodies"?
  100. <IRCian> Don't see they have an option if its on our site
  101. <IRCian> They asked for the link so we do it to our advantage
  102. <slef> Well, let's wave it on -ctte for a day and see if we get shot down in flames. If not, I'll add it tomorrow night.
  103. <IRCian> ok
  104. <slef> Let's move on. Can come back later if needed. Ian, what do we need to know/do/decide on FLOSSIE conf?
  105. Topic for #affs is "AFFS.org.uk || 4. Flossie conference"
  106. Topic for #affs set by slef!~mjr@81-86-163-141.dsl.pipex.com at Mon Oct 27 20:30:56
  107. <IRCian> Just some proposals to see what you think
  108. <slef> OK, fire away.
  109. <IRCian> Probably need at least 50 to run, say recruitment of 35 by end of December as a minimum.
  110. <slef> Do you have an estimated ticket price?
  111. <IRCian> APU had 80 at the last one so should manage it
  112. <IRCian> see above
  113. * slef looks back
  114. <IRCian> I'm approaching politicians as Openers with someone senior from DfES as keynote speaker.
  115. <IRCian> I'll try David Hargreaves who Was Prof. Education at Cambridge, Chairman of QCA and is now Chairman of BECTa. He is sympathetic to FLOSS and wrote an article in the Independent recently.
  116. * slef can't see a ticket price estimate
  117. <slef> Sounds good so far.
  118. <IRCian> To get numbers we need attractive speakers
  119. <IRCian> Need to start now so we can put out a draft program early for recruitment
  120. <slef> Indeed. I think we know the obvious ones from past events (AFFSAC and OSIEC), but that is the tricky part really.
  121. <IRCian> Hargreaves would be good but I'm not sure how likely he is to come
  122. <IRCian> London venues make it easier to get people
  123. <IRCian> I'll try Doug Brown who is responsible for E-learning at the DfES
  124. <IRCian> Also I have requested Brian Jenkind my MP - also a connection with Ivan Lewis who is minister for young people and adult skills
  125. <slef> Shall I see if there's anyone in the UK from xamnet (GPL computer-based testing) project?
  126. <IRCian> yes, we can always fit people in
  127. <slef> I don't really know many on the politico-educational scene
  128. <IRCian> I'm making some enquiries with Edexcel
  129. <IRCian> Joan who is helping me organise the event does a lot of work for Edexcel
  130. <IRCian> Getting some in influential positions from out of the FLOSS circles can be good to educate them
  131. <slef> Well, good luck. Sounds good. Anything we need to do yet?
  132. <IRCian> Just think about possible ways of publicising it through the mailing lists
  133. <slef> Need something to publicise, but I'm sure I can go on a bender.
  134. <IRCian> Save it for the conference :-)
  135. <slef> OK to move on to BETT etc?
  136. <IRCian> Ok if you are happy with the general direction
  137. <slef> (next agenda item)
  138. <slef> I am so far, but please keep -ctte informed of developments/needs
  139. <IRCian> ok
  140. <slef> Will you need working capital?
  141. <IRCian> no
  142. <slef> OK :-)
  143. <slef> ok, shows
  144. <slef> I asked AFSP, FFII and Nick Hill about future stand sharing
  145. <slef> All are willing to do it in the future on the same basis as Expo (staff for space)
  146. <IRCian> probably a good idea cost wise
  147. <slef> If money is required, Nick Hill would rather just send some books and order forms
  148. <slef> FFII would pay a share if it was the right audience
  149. <slef> No answer from AFSP on that one yet
  150. <quinophex> next show would be nicer if we had some more people :)
  151. <IRCian> Schoolforge would be interested except no money yet
  152. <quinophex> another thing for your list slef would be a "soundbite" card
  153. <slef> I had a little more fun and games with Brian Teeman, which you may have seen some of
  154. <quinophex> although i tended to point at the list of things on the back of the leaflet to get people to read what we do
  155. <quinophex> i saw some of that
  156. <IRCian> Expo was a bad time for me I did want to attend :-(
  157. <slef> I think it's all sorted now, but I'll go back and mend fences.
  158. <quinophex> i /may/ see lance before next shows also
  159. <slef> quinophex: do you mean a briefing sheet, telling you what are the best bits to say?
  160. <quinophex> yeah
  161. <slef> quinophex: Very good point. Surprised I've not already put that.
  162. <quinophex> if you look on the back of the leaflet our 5 constitutional aims are listed there
  163. <slef> quinophex: cool. Anything you can do to soothe is welcome. Brian is very touchy about the stand design.
  164. <IRCian> BETT is quite expensive but good for raising profile - were we thinking of attending?
  165. <quinophex> wildduck didn't know what to say so i told her to smile sweetly at people and then read them the back of the leaflet
  166. <quinophex> which worked because she signed up the 10 new members
  167. <slef> I really don't like the full-width counter.
  168. <quinophex> and she sold the most gnu stuff iirc also
  169. <slef> quinophex: that's the sort of info I need in my notes!
  170. <slef> quinophex: what works, what doesn't etc.
  171. <IRCian> women work :-)
  172. <slef> quinophex: then we can put it into a "aims and stand materials" 1-side a4 briefing
  173. <quinophex> ok "lots of cute gnu/girls"
  174. <slef> heh
  175. * slef sends quinophex off for the op
  176. <IRCian> Specially for the geeks :-)
  177. <quinophex> eek!
  178. <IRCian> geek without the g
  179. <quinophex> i didn't mind the counter too much....
  180. <slef> IRCian: BETT was part of the reason for asking the others about stands, but it's not really their market.
  181. <quinophex> but having that square design for them was a bit sucky
  182. <IRCian> Its ours, but BETT isn't good for sales, its good for image
  183. <slef> Unless we can find people who want to share, BETT would eat all our funds whole. Do we know people who would pay us to exhibit their stuff?
  184. <IRCian> We might
  185. <quinophex> IRCian: did you ever email "Mike Lloyd" from XIOS?
  186. <IRCian> Can't remember hang on
  187. <slef> Shall we put out a "call for partners" type email to some lists?
  188. <slef> quinophex: the counter forms a barrier between you and the customers, both physical and psychological
  189. <IRCian> yes I excahnged E-mails with Mike 13th Oct
  190. <slef> quinophex: the only positive thing is that it reduces "stock shrinkage" which was a concern for some people with high-value items.
  191. <IRCian> If we can make some money at FLOSSIE we could use it to re-invest in say BETT the following year
  192. <quinophex> IRCian: did anything interesting come out of speaking with Mike?
  193. * quinophex puts that card in the outtray
  194. <IRCian> We agreed to meet sometime, but then that happens a lot to me!
  195. <quinophex> hehe
  196. <quinophex> k
  197. <slef> IRCian: Do you know the breakeven point for FLOSSIE yet roughly?
  198. <IRCian> Around 50 delegates
  199. <IRCian> Need say 35 by new year to go ahead
  200. <slef> ok
  201. <IRCian> If we could get 200
  202. <slef> Other than BETT, do we know any other places we should be?
  203. <IRCian> Specialist Schools Conference
  204. <slef> when/where/how much?
  205. <IRCian> I'm there in 3 weeks and I'll give out AFFS stuff
  206. <slef> I was sending you 250 leaflets. Should I send more?
  207. <IRCian> Birmingham - around 4000 delegates
  208. <IRCian> I'll take as many as you have and bring back the spares
  209. <IRCian> Our stand is going to focus on free software, the INGOTs, consultancy work etc
  210. <IRCian> I know a lot of the headteachers so its much better than BETT as most of the dlegates are decision makers
  211. <slef> I think I'll send the box of 1200?
  212. <IRCian> ok
  213. <slef> You seriously do not want the 5000 I have here if there are only 4000 delegates
  214. <IRCian> 1200 is probably enough ;-)
  215. <slef> ok. Anything else?
  216. <quinophex> i think i have 1800 :)
  217. <quinophex> there are 200 per bundle iirc
  218. <IRCian> Not sure how many will get taken but better to have too many than too few
  219. <slef> quinophex: roughly, yes.
  220. <quinophex> it isn't a bad idea to have leaflets in different parts of the country
  221. <slef> we used 1800, 1800 with RS, 1800 with you, rest are here
  222. <IRCian> I could also give leaflets out at my training sessions in schools. I usually give OOo discs to the delegates
  223. <slef> That would be good, yes.
  224. <quinophex> oooh, i had a thought
  225. <quinophex> controversial thought this is :)
  226. <slef> quinophex: go for it
  227. <quinophex> do we dare give out/sell copies of GnuWin II?
  228. <IRCian> Why not?
  229. <slef> oh wait, the meeting's ending... I'll stop being chairy
  230. <quinophex> as quite a few people at the expo wanted to try free software but didn't want to install linux
  231. <IRCian> Knoppix
  232. <quinophex> thing is that Knoppix doesn't always work
  233. <quinophex> and isn't condusive to people continuing to run free software after installing it
  234. <IRCian> We do a disc with GIMP, OOo, Mozilla etc on it
  235. <slef> Morphix has been better for me, but that has non-free bits too
  236. <quinophex> that is of course the other problem with knoppix
  237. <IRCian> So does OOo really - the JRE
  238. <quinophex> i figured that we could produce gnuwin II CDs quite cheaply
  239. <quinophex> 30 quid for a stack of 100 CD-Rs
  240. <quinophex> i am getting a printer capable of printing on CD-Rs
  241. <quinophex> + a DVD style case at 7p each or something
  242. <IRCian> Might be able to get them done by schools
  243. <quinophex> and can do a cheapy shiny inlay for the DVD cases
  244. <IRCian> Wilmslow just did 50 discs for me OOo for Malyasia as part of GNVQ course
  245. <slef> I think we've mooted similar things in the past for MPs
  246. <IRCian> Paying basic costs would be useful use of funds
  247. <slef> I like this idea. Can also use the same model for other cds
  248. <IRCian> How about the AFFS sponsoring a maths and computing specialist school in order to double its funds ;-)
  249. <slef> depends how much it hurts us
  250. <IRCian> Why should it hurt us?
  251. <IRCian> It will promote us
  252. <slef> I meant money and time...
  253. <IRCian> It'll make money for the AFFS and cost no more time than me explaiing it
  254. <slef> I suggest sending -ctte a proposal then.
  255. <IRCian> Small amounts therefore magnify
  256. <IRCian> What is the organisational status of Affs - charity?
  257. <slef> no
  258. <slef> unincorporated association
  259. <IRCian> ok shouldn't matter
  260. <slef> so we'd need to incorporate, which is something I'm re-researching now
  261. <slef> s/need/want/
  262. <slef> Can't become a charity because of political aims
  263. <IRCian> not a vital necessity I don;t think
  264. <slef> (influencing government)
  265. <IRCian> The rules on sponsorship are complicated 8 pages of them :-)
  266. <IRCian> But I know what does and doesn't count and I think we could make something work
  267. <IRCian> Just need a friendly school to agree
  268. <IRCian> I'll compose something to explain for the ctte
  269. <slef> thanks
  270. <slef> one last thing before I save this log to disk
  271. <slef> quinophex: will you email that ox.ac.uk chap, or shall I?
  272. <IRCian> I sent him a mail offering any help I could give
  273. <slef> I think -ctte got a copy of my email to him.
  274. <quinophex> slef: oh can you?
  275. <slef> ok, will do.
  276. <slef> now saving this